Superstonk Community Corps - scc-transparency-requests

First question (and a good one) from jackofspades

1:58 PM

1:58 PM

For those who are on mobile and cannot read it

1:59 PM

Jack wants to know why lemmy is automodded

1:59 PM

Would love to hear the SCC thoughts before the mods chime in with ours

1

Lyrad (Crybad)

Would love to hear the SCC thoughts before the mods chime in with ours

down fluffy

2:01 PM

❤️

1

FluffyTrex

3

I think Lemmy shouldn't be banned.

2

Rough_Willow

I think Lemmy shouldn't be banned.

It's really just a backup for if stuff hits the fan, few actually just migrate over since all the content is still on reddit.

i would recommend unbanning it, then reconsider if it creates issues

It was banned because people were attempting to brigade. Lemmy was their answer when reddit was no longer an option for them. Had they not continuously tried to spam it all over superstonk it wouldn't have been banned.

2:39 PM

And Jack knows this perfectly well because Jack spends ample time chatting with the folks who run the Lemmy instance folks were brigading the sub with

Yeah, the reason I support continuing to keep it automodded is that it's never like, "We love Superstonk, here's another place to add to your daily routine."

2:49 PM

It's "fuck this place, fuck the mods, fuck everybody, come to Lemmy."

2:50 PM

We don't care (at all) if people want to leave or want more than one channel... but the people who went to Lemmy took a lot of the toxicity we observed with them... and we don't want it back

2:50 PM

It would be a tough sell to add a bridge to their community.

2:50 PM

Not without figuring out how to cooperate better with their leaders

LastResortFriend

It's really just a backup for if stuff hits the fan, few actually just migrate over since all the content is still on reddit.

If they were sincere with lemmy, they would have suggested it before they got the

1

This is cute. What’s the matter with Lemmy? Blinkity blink blink blink. Heat Lampers sharpening knives.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/175io0o/comment/k4haazy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 My POV (no sense in retyping it)

ProgVirus

https://www.reddit.com/r/Superstonk/comments/175io0o/comment/k4haazy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 My POV (no sense in retyping it)

Very well reasoned argument. Reddit hates us, but they can’t delete us without a Streisand Effect. They want us to leave of our own volition. Chasing greener pastures will find you cloistered inside an ivory tower of irrelevance. I’ve always seen these pushes with negative intent. They will say it’s not about migration but just providing options. It’s become a “fool me once…” kind of thing with this group. They just don’t behave honestly. Us denying Lemmy will confirm in all their minds that that the SCC and the mods here are one and the same. Not sure of a way to thread the needle on this. (edited)

Lemmy is a mixed bag. My own personal fear? Reddit quarantines us for linking to a competing platform who's sub is run by the same people who got their own sub nuked.

4

4:56 PM

Guilt by association

Lyrad (Crybad)

Lemmy is a mixed bag. My own personal fear? Reddit quarantines us for linking to a competing platform who's sub is run by the same people who got their own sub nuked.

Then make that the argument. It’s not about Lemmy, it’s about Reddit admins.

I'll be honest, decentralized is best, but it's an echo chamber in its current form. We explored multiple options when we were under threat by radmins. In the end, I believe that it's better to play by reddit's shitty rules and stay in the public eye than to be free (edited)

Lyrad (Crybad)

I'll be honest, decentralized is best, but it's an echo chamber in its current form. We explored multiple options when we were under threat by radmins. In the end, I believe that it's better to play by reddit's shitty rules and stay in the public eye than to be free (edited)

I see us as a gorilla broadcast inside a hostile space. But the hostile space is connected to the real world.

sandman11235

I see us as a gorilla broadcast inside a hostile space. But the hostile space is connected to the real world.

I also see us as separate factions in this war. One faction was taken out by the overlords, I'd rather not give them a reason to nuke us to rubble as well.

Lyrad (Crybad)

Lemmy is a mixed bag. My own personal fear? Reddit quarantines us for linking to a competing platform who's sub is run by the same people who got their own sub nuked.

I'd like @LastResortFriend 's opinion on this as well (edited)

5:06 PM

Also, I've been accused of being a sell out by playing by the unfair ruleset, I'll wear that badge if it means the community can survive.

5:06 PM

I have 0 doubt in my mind when shit goes down for real, that we will be shut down.

5:07 PM

*all statements made by Lyrad are his own opinion and are not intended to be a blanket statement by the mod team

1

Lyrad (Crybad)

Lemmy is a mixed bag. My own personal fear? Reddit quarantines us for linking to a competing platform who's sub is run by the same people who got their own sub nuked.

I don't think people really understand how close SStonk is to being fucked into the Shadow Realm by the Radmins

sandman11235

Then make that the argument. It’s not about Lemmy, it’s about Reddit admins.

I think it's best that mods maintain whatever little of a relationship with admins that they have tbh. But this is where we at SCC can shine reminding people. I do it all the time

2

ProgVirus

I think it's best that mods maintain whatever little of a relationship with admins that they have tbh. But this is where we at SCC can shine reminding people. I do it all the time

that makes you sus

5:13 PM

also where do i send your paycheck?

5:14 PM

i'm doubling your current rate of pay

Careful, I might turn this into an NFT

1

....

1

Lyrad (Crybad)

Also, I've been accused of being a sell out by playing by the unfair ruleset, I'll wear that badge if it means the community can survive.

Historically speaking, there is always a schism between moderates and hard-liners in a conflict against an entrenched power. IMO, the moderate play is the smart play. Hard liners are driven by emotion and easily sidelined/neutralized.

Caffeine & Ketamine

I don't think people really understand how close SStonk is to being fucked into the Shadow Realm by the Radmins

My gut tells me we were one or two instances away if we didn't come down hard and fast on some things/subjects

2

Lyrad (Crybad)

My gut tells me we were one or two instances away if we didn't come down hard and fast on some things/subjects

Being genuine here, but that sounds to me like an actual need for a backup.

LastResortFriend

Being genuine here, but that sounds to me like an actual need for a backup.

then whydrs lemmy instance better be ready for a few 100k people if we go down.

Lyrad (Crybad)

then whydrs lemmy instance better be ready for a few 100k people if we go down.

I'll make sure they're aware of that

Lyrad (Crybad)

My gut tells me we were one or two instances away if we didn't come down hard and fast on some things/subjects

Nono, we got to last chance status when they took away our tags. And they actually banned me and another mod.

8:24 PM

We had to appeal

8:28 PM

We've done much to claw back into an "off the radar" status, but we definitely understand how tentative it all is (edited)

Okay I’m tapping out with Jack, I’m not sure if they’re intentionally wasting time or genuine but I tried my damnedest

Coming from an Autistic, there seems to be a hyper focus with black and white thinking that's really telling.

Yea, I'm out too

7:49 AM

It's strawman after strawman argument

7:50 AM

There's nothing to be gained there. He doesn't care about our reasoning or logic behind it. He wants to pick apart definitions

Rough_Willow

Coming from an Autistic, there seems to be a hyper focus with black and white thinking that's really telling.

It's hopefully becoming more clear that black and white moderation is an admirable ideal, the posts and calls are not black and white. Everything is gray. And its about finding a reasonable compromise (edited)

Rough_Willow

Coming from an Autistic, there seems to be a hyper focus with black and white thinking that's really telling.

I saw you typing last night and then never chimed in.

7:51 AM

RW:

Rough_Willow

Coming from an Autistic, there seems to be a hyper focus with black and white thinking that's really telling.

I don’t want to be rude/assume anything, but I had this thinking too. A few of my friends are on the spectrum and, well, seems familiar is all I’m saying

I'd like to ask them if they have an example of another sub which enforces the rules in a method they approve of.

Rough_Willow

I'd like to ask them if they have an example of another sub which enforces the rules in a method they approve of.

They've yet to respond to your Chinese food comment. I know you are probably aware, but there's less potential for accusations of brigading if they stick to Chinese rather than other subs.

8:03 AM

If I understand their concerns correctly, it's partially that they disagree with two particular posts (which we've explained our rationale for) and wanting retroactive applicantion of rules. Am I misunderstanding any other key points?

Nah that’s it

8:15 AM

Trying my hardest not to engage further lmao, but like the basis of their argument is faulty - even court systems don’t work rigidly within the letter of the law

8:16 AM

It’s unreasonable that a volunteer mod team has more stringent standards and practices than that of legal systems

This is the "Trying to be nice but getting mud slung" part

He isn't trying to have a discussion (he hasn't listened at all), but lobbying for an admission of fault for something that is gray, but dark enough to be considered doxing- or close enough in both criminal or tos breach. The fundamental premise of what he's asking is that SS should have allowed the content to continue, without an abundance of caution- even though the power of hindsight has revealed it to have been the correct decision?

8:26 AM

If not engaging Jack further, I think some thought should be put into how to close a thread in a way that summarizes the SCC's position so it doesn't get lost in the noise for people who may be watching.

1

All the noise aside of right/wrong, legal/not and the definition nit picking, I stand by this statement

8:33 AM

8:34 AM

I wish drsyourgme wasn't nuked, it was good to have them around doing their thing on a different sub.

8:35 AM

But regardless of the legality of things, they got nuked by radmins and Superstonk was in jeopardy simply by association. (edited)

Quanatee

If not engaging Jack further, I think some thought should be put into how to close a thread in a way that summarizes the SCC's position so it doesn't get lost in the noise for people who may be watching.

@Caffeine & Ketamine Interested in your POV here btw how we close these out (template maybe?) (edited)

Quanatee

This is the "Trying to be nice but getting mud slung" part

He isn't trying to have a discussion (he hasn't listened at all), but lobbying for an admission of fault for something that is gray, but dark enough to be considered doxing- or close enough in both criminal or tos breach. The fundamental premise of what he's asking is that SS should have allowed the content to continue, without an abundance of caution- even though the power of hindsight has revealed it to have been the correct decision?

This is my impression too. He's here because he thinks he can refuse any attempts to change his definitions, which are set up to create an impossible situation. It's a "begging the question" fallacy, or very adjacent to it. Bad faith from the get go, but using very careful methodology to disguise it from the average audience member. He's here because for whatever reason he needs the mods to apologize. I'm not sure what for. If I had to speculate, I'd assume the next step is asking for a specific mod to step down, or to force in some new mod of his choosing or a rigged vote. But that's just speculation from the general trend of these. But yeah, I think at this point we do need to establish how to close an SCC review that had an unsatisfactory conclusion.

In the light of optics so all can see, it might be helpful just to use their own words to summarize OP’s Concern: Mod Response: (Individuals each put their own POV) SCC Response: (Individuals each put their own POV) So if OP really does want others to be able to see, there is full transparency Disclaimer: This is an idea not the best, just what I have time to put forward atm

Is there a way to lock a thread? I.e. prevent users from writing in the thread once closed

At the least, each SCC member (who participated in that thread!) imo should speak for themselves - mods should too imo, just because then there’s no accusations of speaking for the group I think even after posting the summary like above, letting OP always having the last word before locking, etc. would be helpful (locking must be possible, just need to look into it) (edited)

Yes, I think the option is close or lock thread, I don't remember the verbage offhand. Don't delete.

ProgVirus

At the least, each SCC member (who participated in that thread!) imo should speak for themselves - mods should too imo, just because then there’s no accusations of speaking for the group I think even after posting the summary like above, letting OP always having the last word before locking, etc. would be helpful (locking must be possible, just need to look into it) (edited)

Minority getting the last word is usually a great balm.

2

ProgVirus

In the light of optics so all can see, it might be helpful just to use their own words to summarize OP’s Concern: Mod Response: (Individuals each put their own POV) SCC Response: (Individuals each put their own POV) So if OP really does want others to be able to see, there is full transparency Disclaimer: This is an idea not the best, just what I have time to put forward atm

This falls under an almost impossible task. To get 20 mods to all see things the same way and enforce the gray areas unilaterally across the board. We shouldn't have individual POVs, we should be a full team where each person handles things in the exact same way. The HUGE problem to this is that the mod team itself becomes a huge echo chamber if that were to happen. Just like the SCC, we mods all have different points of views on how certain situations should be handled. It is both a blessing and a curse. I can tell you that I can think of a dozen instances just off the top of my head where the mod team is split on a decisions and the majority will win out and we provide a united front even if we disagree internally. Take the creation of the SCC. I think it was a 75%/25% split on the creation of it with lots of good arguments for both sides. People may think that the mods should all be on the same page and treat posts/comments/users equally, but I will push back that having the minority vote expressing their concerns is essential into not becoming complacent with how we mod.

ProgVirus

@Caffeine & Ketamine Interested in your POV here btw how we close these out (template maybe?) (edited)

We can develope a template / response that the SCC agrees can kind of touch the aspect of what our goals with the information will be, and a closing positioning statement. Something like: "This conversation will be archived & reviewed to help the SCC continue to adapt and serve the Community & also provide transparency if ever any information within this conversation is ever requested" Something along those lines.

10:44 AM

Then we can lock the thread/ copy and paste it into a locked archive channel

ProgVirus

In the light of optics so all can see, it might be helpful just to use their own words to summarize OP’s Concern: Mod Response: (Individuals each put their own POV) SCC Response: (Individuals each put their own POV) So if OP really does want others to be able to see, there is full transparency Disclaimer: This is an idea not the best, just what I have time to put forward atm

I like this layout

10:45 AM

We can work the phrasing

10:46 AM

Sorry been with clients so my responses might be late for the next hour or 2

Champion response by MVP @TiberiusWoodwind

Quanatee

Champion response by MVP @TiberiusWoodwind

Which one?

TiberiusWoodwind

Which one?

Jack

Quanatee

Jack

There’s been a lot

https://discord.com/channels/841716774554042439/1161755849094598747/1162077880151445614

TiberiusWoodwind

There’s been a lot

Also this is a good example of why we don't engage with every single complaint. The amount of time just that one conversation has taken to get nowhere is crazy.

11:44 AM

Now x that by every person who's unhappy how we mod.

1

It's an interesting topic. Digging up the past and asking the to be apologetic in the present. I'll be honest, it's not really something we had intended for the SCC to tackle. I wanted to look forward and not backwards. Opening old wounds isn't really the best for healing.

@Waitingonawait I just want to keep the discussion direct and on track. I dont want anything to go off the rails and make us look bad, so im trying to figure out if this is a good faith request or an attempt at a GOTCHA! from a Millertime fanboy

Lyrad (Crybad)

It's an interesting topic. Digging up the past and asking the to be apologetic in the present. I'll be honest, it's not really something we had intended for the SCC to tackle. I wanted to look forward and not backwards. Opening old wounds isn't really the best for healing.

This is why I'm trying to get them to clarify if this is in fact a transparency request of specific info, or merely a demand we do their will and force Mods who aren't even Mods anymore, to apologize

5:33 PM

I won't be doing anything besides exactly what the SCC is designed for. Not going to let them dictate our goals and our intent

I mean i offered an unban and he still wasn't exactly happy with that. I don't know if this goes as far as publically apologizing but.

Waitingonawait

I mean i offered an unban and he still wasn't exactly happy with that. I don't know if this goes as far as publically apologizing but.

This is what's really weird and getting my suspicion up tbh. I expected some "unban my friend!" but that being secondary to a public apology? Seems really weird.

For reference, here are the mods who were added since Miller was banned (since that was 31 dramas ago) Myself, Kibble, Fluffy, Hosonvan, Saxmuffin, Goose and skytoph

@Lairian -Flairy Type- what can we do to keep people from entering threads are there no access permissions? People on the discord are now realizing they can just enter the threads and completely derail everything were doing Shidiot and butt have both found this out

Lyrad (Crybad)

It's an interesting topic. Digging up the past and asking the to be apologetic in the present. I'll be honest, it's not really something we had intended for the SCC to tackle. I wanted to look forward and not backwards. Opening old wounds isn't really the best for healing.

I don’t see this as something the SCC intended to deal with and I see it as a waste of time and energy. They will never be satisfied.

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Lairian -Flairy Type- what can we do to keep people from entering threads are there no access permissions? People on the discord are now realizing they can just enter the threads and completely derail everything were doing Shidiot and butt have both found this out

We can just ask them to stop under threat of timeout

5:38 PM

But that would require babysitting

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Lairian -Flairy Type- what can we do to keep people from entering threads are there no access permissions? People on the discord are now realizing they can just enter the threads and completely derail everything were doing Shidiot and butt have both found this out

Off hand, are you making public or private threads? Maybe create private threads and then invite the topic poster. But be prepared for upset nobody else can read. Again, I'm working with what discord allows me

Lairian -Flairy Type-

Off hand, are you making public or private threads? Maybe create private threads and then invite the topic poster. But be prepared for upset nobody else can read. Again, I'm working with what discord allows me

Understood. I'll adjust accordingly

5:39 PM

New to the whole deep dive of discord beyond gifs and shitposting lol

Lyrad (Crybad)

But that would require babysitting

Don't mean to create more work...just worried that people who have no good intentions end up making things worse

‍♂️ Well handle it as it comes

I'd rather the discussions be public

I miss even users were mostly adult about things.

Lyrad (Crybad)

I'd rather the discussions be public

I agree

Lairian -Flairy Type-

I miss even users were mostly adult about things.

Was there ever a time???

1

I dunno. (edited)

It’s not about unbanning a friend, it’s about taking down a mod. And if that’s not possible, it’s about declaring SStonk comprised. That is what this is. It’s a take down.

5:50 PM

As far as I’m concerned, the SCC can deal with the present and not the past.

If he's able to post and such on the jungle i'd just give him an unban for the street cred. If he gets unbanned and starts posting in this sub again it could quell some of the mods are sus talk. I could also be wrong about this and upsetting people so sorry

Ohhhhh I know this user.

Honestly that's a healthy boundary. It's your board and you can run it as you like. Remember, it's set up so that you choose what gets a thread. Please don't feel like you owe anyone anything you feel is outside your scope.

1

Lyrad (Crybad)

Ohhhhh I know this user.

They seem very familiar

ThrowRA_senesitive

Waitingonawait

If he's able to post and such on the jungle i'd just give him an unban for the street cred. If he gets unbanned and starts posting in this sub again it could quell some of the mods are sus talk. I could also be wrong about this and upsetting people so sorry

Wait, you saying I got street cred because I can post on jungle?!?!

Hey man i can't

Lyrad (Crybad)

Wait, you saying I got street cred because I can post on jungle?!?!

theres a lot of wrinkley DD writers in there too that i came across sifting through peoples profiles lol

5:55 PM

cruxhub

5:55 PM

anyways sorry im digressing

Can someone add me to the #3 channel? I don’t see it

Hipz

Can someone add me to the #3 channel? I don’t see it

Just tagged you

1

Caffeine & Ketamine

Just tagged you

Thanks!!

Just caught up with the thread. It’s almost bedtime, but I was a mod when Miller was banned. I can discuss more tomorrow if need be but Millers ban was warranted and I personally stand by the decision 100%. I can dig out receipts (it was SO long ago lol) but we tried very hard to work with him.

Hipz

Just caught up with the thread. It’s almost bedtime, but I was a mod when Miller was banned. I can discuss more tomorrow if need be but Millers ban was warranted and I personally stand by the decision 100%. I can dig out receipts (it was SO long ago lol) but we tried very hard to work with him.

Any information/ breakdown you could give would be great

6:51 PM

We appreciate it

It's been just those 2 going back and forth for a bit now...

Caffeine & Ketamine

Any information/ breakdown you could give would be great

Yeah, it might be later in the day but I’ll see what I can find

Waitingonawait

It's been just those 2 going back and forth for a bit now...

I know (edited)

I think RW is doing a good job of fleshing out what he really wants

6:52 PM

My own opinion

Lyrad (Crybad)

I think RW is doing a good job of fleshing out what he really wants

I don't think RW is poking him, but narrowing down exactly what they find wrong in the post in order to address that

Understood.

6:53 PM

You're right

I think the broader question in here is, is this something the SCC wants to be involved in?

6:54 PM

Doing an autopsy to find fault from something over a year old.

Are we talking about jack or fabbble right now?

6:56 PM

Getting confused lmao.

I'm just voicing the dissenting opinion i guess. I think the best way out is still an unban and thats it. No apologies or any of that crap. Give miller an unban warn him not to break the rules and let it be.. I was talking about miller lol that is who THIS request is.. dude has 3.. as i understand it.

1

Okay thanks, I’m getting confused going between 3 superstonk discords lmao.

Hipz

Are we talking about jack or fabbble right now?

Fabbble, the jack discussion is pretty much done

Lyrad (Crybad)

Fabbble, the jack discussion is pretty much done

Okay got it!

Waitingonawait

I'm just voicing the dissenting opinion i guess. I think the best way out is still an unban and thats it. No apologies or any of that crap. Give miller an unban warn him not to break the rules and let it be.. I was talking about miller lol that is who THIS request is.. dude has 3.. as i understand it.

So just throwing this out there. We historically don't unban people through 3rd party requests

One thing I want to point out is we will not drag old mods into this. I’m not sure if they are going to want that, but we aren’t going to put them in that position.

You're saying that when someone asks about Runic Glory, we are not going to put Red and Pink in a room and let them fight it out? (edited)

2

Lyrad (Crybad)

Doing an autopsy to find fault from something over a year old.

1) Imo from everything I witnessed go down with Miller, I find no fault with how the Mods handled it 2) tbh this isn't the SCCs issue. I made it clear several times that unless this was a request for information regarding the reasoning behind the ban, there wasn't much we could do. While I believe the SCC does have a responsibility to hold Mods accountable, this isn't our fight. If we open up this can, then we'll be tying ourselves to every bad faith argument and grudge people have for Mods who aren't even really Mods anymore.

Waitingonawait

I'm just voicing the dissenting opinion i guess. I think the best way out is still an unban and thats it. No apologies or any of that crap. Give miller an unban warn him not to break the rules and let it be.. I was talking about miller lol that is who THIS request is.. dude has 3.. as i understand it.

Any thoughts on my points above on the toxicity that follows him?

1

Waitingonawait

I'm just voicing the dissenting opinion i guess. I think the best way out is still an unban and thats it. No apologies or any of that crap. Give miller an unban warn him not to break the rules and let it be.. I was talking about miller lol that is who THIS request is.. dude has 3.. as i understand it.

The downside of it is..... this will open the floodgates for his followers to come running back... do we really want to bring even MORE drama to the sub right now with the whole ppshow bbby drama going on? I say it gets tabled for now until things calm down

1

TiberiusWoodwind

Any thoughts on my points above on the toxicity that follows him?

My point exactly

Millers ban was very clear. It’s been a long time and I forget how many warnings we gave but it was a silly amount. He was relentless and wouldn’t stop. Our warnings were very clear.

Hipz

One thing I want to point out is we will not drag old mods into this. I’m not sure if they are going to want that, but we aren’t going to put them in that position.

Exactly what I told the guy. We aren't going to drag people back into this for a 2 year old drama

I think I don't know enough about the guy to say whether or not that statement is actually accurate. Can you offer up some examples that i could look at?

Caffeine & Ketamine

Exactly what I told the guy. We aren't going to drag people back into this for a 2 year old drama

Yeah, it’s also a situation where they’re going to want screenshots or some sort of proof and I’m not going to put those mods in that situation. Then if we black their names out so they don’t get harassed we would get shit for that.

Waitingonawait

I think I don't know enough about the guy to say whether or not that statement is actually accurate. Can you offer up some examples that i could look at?

I offered you multiple. You aren’t sure if they are accurate? (edited)

(Those mods meaning retired mods involved back then)

I'm also clearly alone on this side of the argument.. Im doing my best to be nice here but you don't seem like the flexible type at all. Your also very vocal about your viewpoints on how things should be done. Which I can't say is a bad thing honestly. I was offering an out of the box solution to the problem presented. This clearly was designed to attack the mods regardless cause he doesn't seem that concerned with the ban in the first place, which means they don't really care whether or not the dude actually gets to post in the sub again. So by unbanning him you get to claim the transparency channel works and tout it as a good thing, and mods seem less sus to the non-toxic people who didn't mind miller. They can't take this and run with it. Shut this down and it will spread through the underground. Fucking everything else said i really don't wanna be diving around in this shit as the amount i actually fucking care about this is pretty little. The universe has a way of working itself out usually. (edited)

Hipz

Yeah, it’s also a situation where they’re going to want screenshots or some sort of proof and I’m not going to put those mods in that situation. Then if we black their names out so they don’t get harassed we would get shit for that.

Tbh if the names are blacked out and they complain then that's their problem. This kind of goes back to the conversation I was having with crybad about people demanding to see if I was actually holding GME/DRSd and a real investor If I give them that then who's to say they don't demand more and claim I'm lying. Then demand video( like one already has today), then demand my personal info. People like this will NEVER be satisfied because they're bad faithed

Waitingonawait

I'm also clearly alone on this side of the argument.. Im doing my best to be nice here but you don't seem like the flexible type at all. Your also very vocal about your viewpoints on how things should be done. Which I can't say is a bad thing honestly. I was offering an out of the box solution to the problem presented. This clearly was designed to attack the mods regardless cause he doesn't seem that concerned with the ban in the first place, which means they don't really care whether or not the dude actually gets to post in the sub again. So by unbanning him you get to claim the transparency channel works and tout it as a good thing, and mods seem less sus to the non-toxic people who didn't mind miller. They can't take this and run with it. Shut this down and it will spread through the underground. Fucking everything else said i really don't wanna be diving around in this shit as the amount i actually fucking care about this is pretty little. The universe has a way of working itself out usually. (edited)

Didn't you also say you aren't familiar with Miller and what happened? Also let's keep this cordial please

For what it’s worth, without speaking for the other mods, it is EXTREMELY unlikely Miller would be unbanned. The decision made was not done lightly, we spent dozens of hours going over it and making sure we were not being heavy handed.

Hipz

For what it’s worth, without speaking for the other mods, it is EXTREMELY unlikely Miller would be unbanned. The decision made was not done lightly, we spent dozens of hours going over it and making sure we were not being heavy handed.

I remember the posts yall put up about it. Dude said one thing and did another, apologized then did it again. Broken record doesn't play music better after shelving it for years

1

I've had some time to look at a bit, so im more familiar with what went on. My personal interactions with him were nothing like what he was doing before, so i wasn't aware he acted like that.

Caffeine & Ketamine

Tbh if the names are blacked out and they complain then that's their problem. This kind of goes back to the conversation I was having with crybad about people demanding to see if I was actually holding GME/DRSd and a real investor If I give them that then who's to say they don't demand more and claim I'm lying. Then demand video( like one already has today), then demand my personal info. People like this will NEVER be satisfied because they're bad faithed

Yeah I HATE that gapekeeping personally. It’s ridiculous to expect anyone to do that or criticize them for not relenting.

Waitingonawait

I've had some time to look at a bit, so im more familiar with what went on. My personal interactions with him were nothing like what he was doing before, so i wasn't aware he acted like that.

I'm not a mod, merely saw the action then the response but... it wasn't good on his end

Lyrad (Crybad)

I don't think RW is poking him, but narrowing down exactly what they find wrong in the post in order to address that

I'm trying to get more concrete actions rather than "just admit you were wrong and apologize!"

1

Can I just say I'm really fucking proud of everyone here. I'm loving the discussions and ability to handle lmultiple issues at once

7:20 PM

Also thank you all for entertaining my brain child

7:20 PM

I didn't mean to increase the work load

7:20 PM

But everyone is doing great

Rough_Willow

I'm trying to get more concrete actions rather than "just admit you were wrong and apologize!"

You are a debater after my own heart

Me as well. You guys are all going a great job. I’ve really enjoyed everyone’s perspective. No need to apologize, I think it’s a good thing.

Rough_Willow

I'm trying to get more concrete actions rather than "just admit you were wrong and apologize!"

I'm not going to lie RW, watching you grill someone else is MUCH more enjoyable than being on the receiving side of your grilling.

4

3

Waitingonawait

I'm also clearly alone on this side of the argument.. Im doing my best to be nice here but you don't seem like the flexible type at all. Your also very vocal about your viewpoints on how things should be done. Which I can't say is a bad thing honestly. I was offering an out of the box solution to the problem presented. This clearly was designed to attack the mods regardless cause he doesn't seem that concerned with the ban in the first place, which means they don't really care whether or not the dude actually gets to post in the sub again. So by unbanning him you get to claim the transparency channel works and tout it as a good thing, and mods seem less sus to the non-toxic people who didn't mind miller. They can't take this and run with it. Shut this down and it will spread through the underground. Fucking everything else said i really don't wanna be diving around in this shit as the amount i actually fucking care about this is pretty little. The universe has a way of working itself out usually. (edited)

It sucks to be the only one speaking on one side of the debate. It's also exhausting, and very easy to feel cornered. I'm not saying you feel those things, just speaking from my old hat of people manager. Yes, I was gross middle management, sorry. I do want to say that it's super important and valuable that you're willing and able to speak up and do that. I really hope frustration here and disagreement aren't turning you off of the experience or program. Everyone deserves an advocate. I'm sure Plat and Lyrad can confirm that I've put that hat on even if I don't really believe it and annoyed everyone else. Because I really do believe that if there isn't a debate, something is wrong. So, I'm sorry you're feeling like the only one here. But I thoroughly respect both your ability to argue anyway in the face of numbers, and I think the team is so much stronger for you doing it.

3

1

We may not all always agree but mutual support is always here

Hipz

For what it’s worth, without speaking for the other mods, it is EXTREMELY unlikely Miller would be unbanned. The decision made was not done lightly, we spent dozens of hours going over it and making sure we were not being heavy handed.

Isn't he banned by Reddit Admins as well?

Chato35

Isn't he banned by Reddit Admins as well?

Honestly I don’t remember it’s been SO long

Chato35

Isn't he banned by Reddit Admins as well?

just the subs he modded afaik

Lyrad (Crybad)

I'm not going to lie RW, watching you grill someone else is MUCH more enjoyable than being on the receiving side of your grilling.

fuck

So, first of all, Mr. F had some valid points. The timeline of the transparency post and others finding out was terrible. As was the actual structure of the transparency post. Main reasons should be the main focus. Additional compounding issues can be included at the bottom or in a pinned comment. If that transparency post had focused on how it was spam, how many times he had been spamming, highlights that it wasn't the contents but the method they used which was problematic, all would have made most of this issue a moot point.

Rough_Willow

So, first of all, Mr. F had some valid points. The timeline of the transparency post and others finding out was terrible. As was the actual structure of the transparency post. Main reasons should be the main focus. Additional compounding issues can be included at the bottom or in a pinned comment. If that transparency post had focused on how it was spam, how many times he had been spamming, highlights that it wasn't the contents but the method they used which was problematic, all would have made most of this issue a moot point.

So I cannot speak to the timeline but I can speak to the aftermath a bit (from my perspective). My induction into the mod team was actually delayed by 2 weeks because of the Millertime ban. Acting when a matter is urgent is a horrible dance. You need to get information out quickly, and it needs to stand the test of time with post-mortem scrutiny. There have been 2 major instances where prominent figures were banned from the sub. Gherk and Miller. Each instance was handled in the best way possible by the team at the time. In BOTH instances, there were things that could have been done better/clearer, and in both instances internal policies changed to reduce the mistakes/missteps of the incident before. Nowadays, I think the mod team is actually much slower to responding to things (for better or worse) as drafts of posts are created, bought to the team, rewritten, discussed, rewritten again, revised and then voted on. I actually hate how so we have become with so many checks in place, but I understand why we have them now.

Tbh dropping Pickleboy was the best move for the sub

As a pickle fan (at the time) i thought it was handled poorly.

This is where template documents and response planning would be beneficial. Prepping some template documents that can be used for explanations means a quick response time. Prepping an action plan means that you can get ahead of the public outcry with an explanation and evidence.

Not enough transparency ironically enough. (edited)

Lyrad (Crybad)

As a pickle fan (at the time) i thought it was handled poorly.

I agree, he should have been banned much sooner.

1

That was an extremely stressful time to be a mod lol

Rough_Willow

This is where template documents and response planning would be beneficial. Prepping some template documents that can be used for explanations means a quick response time. Prepping an action plan means that you can get ahead of the public outcry with an explanation and evidence.

I actually wish we had a technical writer on the team. The skillsets amongst us are vast and wide, but we are severely lacking in some of the more.... corporate areas (tech writing, PR, HR, management, programmer)

1

Lyrad (Crybad)

As a pickle fan (at the time) i thought it was handled poorly.

From a user standpoint, his fans were rabid and aggressive, his posts were suspiciously upvoted and awarded immediately after posting, the notifications in his discord to go pump up his posts was sketchy, his monetization and Anti- MOASS sentiment, plus his genuinely egotistical demeanor was just toxic. Handled poorly? Sure Justified? 100%

Caffeine & Ketamine

From a user standpoint, his fans were rabid and aggressive, his posts were suspiciously upvoted and awarded immediately after posting, the notifications in his discord to go pump up his posts was sketchy, his monetization and Anti- MOASS sentiment, plus his genuinely egotistical demeanor was just toxic. Handled poorly? Sure Justified? 100%

Oh i agree with the ban, but because it was handled poorly, i was on his side for the most part.

8:01 PM

A lot of good mod team growth came from that

2

Caffeine & Ketamine

From a user standpoint, his fans were rabid and aggressive, his posts were suspiciously upvoted and awarded immediately after posting, the notifications in his discord to go pump up his posts was sketchy, his monetization and Anti- MOASS sentiment, plus his genuinely egotistical demeanor was just toxic. Handled poorly? Sure Justified? 100%

wowowwo Anti-MOASS sentiment?? that's no good lol

8:02 PM

among the other things i'm just gonna agree with you and shut up for the night on here.

Waitingonawait

wowowwo Anti-MOASS sentiment?? that's no good lol

anti-moass and a non DRS believer

Lyrad (Crybad)

anti-moass and a non DRS believer

I thought his stance was DRS just did nothing for price?

Waitingonawait

wowowwo Anti-MOASS sentiment?? that's no good lol

It was bad.

TiberiusWoodwind

I thought his stance was DRS just did nothing for price?

it started that way, now it's just a point of mockery at this point

Lyrad (Crybad)

it started that way, now it's just a point of mockery at this point

I mean, 2ish years since drs really started rolling and the consistent downtrend continues. Just from my own perspective of telling people shits continuing down I understand the frustration.

@Platinumsparkles @dismal-jellyfish.eth just a heads up the guy yall been talking to has never once accepted an answer to anything I've ever said. Never happy. So best of luck lol

1

Lyrad (Crybad)

I actually wish we had a technical writer on the team. The skillsets amongst us are vast and wide, but we are severely lacking in some of the more.... corporate areas (tech writing, PR, HR, management, programmer)

If only there were a crowd of people to draw from, some sort of group with 900K members from all walks of life, which would have some of these skills...

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Platinumsparkles @dismal-jellyfish.eth just a heads up the guy yall been talking to has never once accepted an answer to anything I've ever said. Never happy. So best of luck lol

which guy

6:10 AM

that could be so many people

1

6:12 AM

Oh I figured it out

6:12 AM

that guy

6:12 AM

Platinumsparkles

that could be so many people

Lol okay got me there

The soupsteakfishfart guy

6:19 AM

it wasn't boosted, it's boosted now how dare you! we fixed it UNACCEPTABLE!

1

6:20 AM

Lol

Caffeine & Ketamine

The downside of it is..... this will open the floodgates for his followers to come running back... do we really want to bring even MORE drama to the sub right now with the whole ppshow bbby drama going on? I say it gets tabled for now until things calm down

Only on a Friday night please. Just in time...

Caffeine & Ketamine

it wasn't boosted, it's boosted now how dare you! we fixed it UNACCEPTABLE!

I want to see him answer my "you might shit on the floor" question.

Rough_Willow

I want to see him answer my "you might shit on the floor" question.

I do too lol

6:36 AM

If I was drinking at the time, it would have gone everywhere

6:42 AM

"Dear Mr. Google, will I shit on the floor tomorrow?"

2

They ignored my comment about other users like elegant remote having a website and they don't seem to have a problem with them

Hipz

They ignored my comment about other users like elegant remote having a website and they don't seem to have a problem with them

I mean, I get it. ER isn't a mod. They don't have the ability to take moderator actions to enforce visibility.

Rough_Willow

I mean, I get it. ER isn't a mod. They don't have the ability to take moderator actions to enforce visibility.

Fair point

Ugh, I'm thinking of how to defend the shitting question before I've had coffee. Not how I thought my morning was going to start

I would like to encourage us all to reframe these transparency posts and questions just a bit. I think they would be more productive if they were framed as freedom of information requests. It's not without value to bring a concern or air a grievance, But that's sort of a step removed from what I understood the intended purpose of this was to be which was to request something in the form of transparency. When you petition the government for a freedom of information request there's two outcomes. Either you get the information you seek or you get an explanation why that information might be sensitive. Hopefully everybody here at the SCC has observed that we're really willing to go right up to the edge of that line and provide as much transparency as we can. It just seems like the last few questions have not been about wanting information so much as wanting to argue. Not to formalize this too much but if you send a list of grievances or arguments to the government under the guise of a freedom of information request You're not going to get a satisfactory response. (edited)

7:14 AM

I think there's tremendous value in what this is intending to do. But I really do think that they need to be reframed as freedom of information requests. Not to push them off but I think grievances should just be directed to modmail and I pledge that we will open every grievance email to the SCC to review

7:14 AM

Heck we could even publish the mod mails in a thread.

7:14 AM

But I just don't see these remaining productive and constructive if they're not really focused on people requesting information and then getting that information

Slowmode should be mandatory on these going forward btw

3

1

luma44

I would like to encourage us all to reframe these transparency posts and questions just a bit. I think they would be more productive if they were framed as freedom of information requests. It's not without value to bring a concern or air a grievance, But that's sort of a step removed from what I understood the intended purpose of this was to be which was to request something in the form of transparency. When you petition the government for a freedom of information request there's two outcomes. Either you get the information you seek or you get an explanation why that information might be sensitive. Hopefully everybody here at the SCC has observed that we're really willing to go right up to the edge of that line and provide as much transparency as we can. It just seems like the last few questions have not been about wanting information so much as wanting to argue. Not to formalize this too much but if you send a list of grievances or arguments to the government under the guise of a freedom of information request You're not going to get a satisfactory response. (edited)

I wholeheartedly agree. My initial intention for this channel was: hey, here's my request. Here is x,y,z reasoning And then a short discussion of what the SCC member will attempt to do, clarification of the request, and then update as we go. Tbh my worry is these threads will become so extensive and difficult to follow, that if they're publicized, people will just see a big debate and not a lot of answers. If that make sense

Yeah I agree. One question one thorough response. Appropriate follow-ups

1

Yes.

ProgVirus

Slowmode should be mandatory on these going forward btw

Downside is I for some reason can't activate the 2 factor, so I'm getting slow moded and can't delete/manage the channels either lol

But as soon as it's not a question anymore... Then we direct the conversation to a more appropriate channel

1

luma44

But as soon as it's not a question anymore... Then we direct the conversation to a more appropriate channel

Absolutely.

7:33 AM

@Community Corps Member any questions / comments on this framework for how we approach future requests??? I love the discussions we've been having but when it's obvious there's either displeasure with the solution, or bad faith debating, the longer it goes on the less we seem in control of the situation (edited)

7:33 AM

We can just shuffle them over to another channel for that debate

Also, @Caffeine & Ketamine this is a great idea. As with every new idea, first come the trolls and the skeptics, soon it will settle down a bit and be used for more of what your initial idea was. I speak from lots of experience of presenting new ideas to the sub. (edited)

1

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Community Corps Member any questions / comments on this framework for how we approach future requests??? I love the discussions we've been having but when it's obvious there's either displeasure with the solution, or bad faith debating, the longer it goes on the less we seem in control of the situation (edited)

I really think that there needs to be a better format for how these topics are approached. Either address a specific rule being broken. Suggest a new rule be discussed about a specific topic. Or requesting more information on a rule violation/ban. Something like that.

Lyrad (Crybad)

Also, @Caffeine & Ketamine this is a great idea. As with every new idea, first come the trolls and the skeptics, soon it will settle down a bit and be used for more of what your initial idea was. I speak from lots of experience of presenting new ideas to the sub. (edited)

This is entirely the case.

7:47 AM

The loudest and most vocal are often the most critical

7:47 AM

We'll use their feedback and lessons learned from our initial ones to make a better process

Rough_Willow

I really think that there needs to be a better format for how these topics are approached. Either address a specific rule being broken. Suggest a new rule be discussed about a specific topic. Or requesting more information on a rule violation/ban. Something like that.

.....

7:48 AM

agreed

Lyrad (Crybad)

agreed

Stop it.

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Community Corps Member any questions / comments on this framework for how we approach future requests??? I love the discussions we've been having but when it's obvious there's either displeasure with the solution, or bad faith debating, the longer it goes on the less we seem in control of the situation (edited)

I think the opening questions should go along the lines of

“I see that x post/comment was removed, can I see the reasons why?”

“I was banned last week but never received a reason why, what was the reason?”

“Automod is blocking the word x, why is that?”

In those types of questions, we can just look up the reason and give it to them. Then something like these…

“I was banned last week and put in an appeal, what is the status of it?”

“I believe this needs to change in the sub, can the team please have a discussion on this topic”

Again we can look into what is going on there. (edited)

7:49 AM

But the immediate “you need to give an answer” we can’t do because it’s a team discussion.

1

TiberiusWoodwind

I think the opening questions should go along the lines of

“I see that x post/comment was removed, can I see the reasons why?”

“I was banned last week but never received a reason why, what was the reason?”

“Automod is blocking the word x, why is that?”

In those types of questions, we can just look up the reason and give it to them. Then something like these…

“I was banned last week and put in an appeal, what is the status of it?”

“I believe this needs to change in the sub, can the team please have a discussion on this topic”

Again we can look into what is going on there. (edited)

Yeah, a form model. Not a strict one, but some suggestions

7:50 AM

There were similar form models in the scc

Rough_Willow

Stop it.

I meant to say: Fuck that. We are mods and we will do things however we want to. Screw the users, screw the sub, we are in charge!

2

Let me link them.

Lyrad (Crybad)

I meant to say: Fuck that. We are mods and we will do things however we want to. Screw the users, screw the sub, we are in charge!

7:51 AM

Whoops. Wrong thing /s

luma44

Yeah, a form model. Not a strict one, but some suggestions

The idea needs to be that whatever the request is, either SCC will go look into it OR it’s something we make a post in here and discuss.

Damnit, RW put up the camera emoji right before my edit. Im ruined!

Lyrad (Crybad)

Damnit, RW put up the camera emoji right before my edit. Im ruined!

7:52 AM

I think we need rules set up sort of in this form

7:52 AM

I don't think it's appropriate for the mod team to construct these rules

7:52 AM

But just a guide for how to make things constructive and focused

Loving these ideas. Makes me feel all warm n fuzzy seeing this develop

luma44

I think we need rules set up sort of in this form

This is a good starter. Maybe also add in the timeline on SCC’s side. Info might be ready fairly quick. Request for discussion could take a day or so for a response because it might take that time for members to weigh in

So despite the bad faith arguments, lets talk about the No-Monetization rule.

8:21 AM

The sub's current rule is no linking to monetized you tube channels/websites etc.

8:22 AM

Personally, I think this rule is a little too strict. There's a LOT of good information out there on youtube channels that are in fact monetized. Of course there's a lot of grifters out there too who want to suck people in with click bait

8:24 AM

One of the things that BBBY and AMC's influencers did right was to get a lot of eyes beyond their respective subs. It was the wrong play, but the impact of youtube/ticktok/twitter cannot be overlooked if we want to keep getting the word out

8:25 AM

One of the things that is starting to pop up is the fact that twitter is now monitizing channels and Reddit itself is going to be doing the same sort of thing in the near future

8:25 AM

Is this something we want to change with the times with?

It's something I can toss up in the Fireside Chat this weekend and get the communities opinion (edited)

8:29 AM

A conversation worth having

@Community Corps Member Currently writing out the Weekly Fireside Chat Post for the Sub. I want some feedback. I'd like to provide the requests we've received that week, but I don't feel it's best to include the bad faith requests that develop into uncompromising debate. Should we include ALL requests & just state that the conversation is ongoing? How would you all like this to be phrased? (edited)

9:01 AM

Example: the millertime request....

9:01 AM

That is a basket of cats on its own and while I want the community to know it was brought up I don't really have a concrete answer yet as to how It should be phrased (edited)

I'm not SCC (just tech support and nosey and loud). But I would stress that you include your "wins" from earlier where you did overturn mod actions last week. I suspect you'll have a specific few people claiming you're impotent sock puppets and pointing at out of context crops of the discord. Getting ahead of that would be wise.

Lairian -Flairy Type-

I'm not SCC (just tech support and nosey and loud). But I would stress that you include your "wins" from earlier where you did overturn mod actions last week. I suspect you'll have a specific few people claiming you're impotent sock puppets and pointing at out of context crops of the discord. Getting ahead of that would be wise.

Understood. I appreciate the input that's a good point

Lyrad (Crybad)

So despite the bad faith arguments, lets talk about the No-Monetization rule.

Yes, happy to review any questions, comments, or concerns folks may have about dismal-jellyfish.com and the approach I am taking.

For the sake of argument, and only because of a compulsive need to devil's advocate, what would break if you disabled all tracking? Given this lad wants to hang you for what you might do tomorrow, he'll say you'll just turn it on next week, of course. But does the site actually need any of those tracking libraries?

Are there any topics besides the Discord Invite error, the Monetization Rule discussion that we feel could be added to the post?? @Community Corps Member @Superstonk Mod

Lairian -Flairy Type-

For the sake of argument, and only because of a compulsive need to devil's advocate, what would break if you disabled all tracking? Given this lad wants to hang you for what you might do tomorrow, he'll say you'll just turn it on next week, of course. But does the site actually need any of those tracking libraries?

For me trying to a + b test keywords that get this news to the broader public, I believe so absolutely. @BadassTrader is more an expert in this space than I am though

Sorry for the tags. Just trying to keep my train of thought

Lairian -Flairy Type-

I'm not SCC (just tech support and nosey and loud). But I would stress that you include your "wins" from earlier where you did overturn mod actions last week. I suspect you'll have a specific few people claiming you're impotent sock puppets and pointing at out of context crops of the discord. Getting ahead of that would be wise.

I love this idea

9:12 AM

Here's what I think we should do

dismal-jellyfish.eth

For me trying to a + b test keywords that get this news to the broader public, I believe so absolutely. @BadassTrader is more an expert in this space than I am though

That's enough for me actually. A/B testing is immense. I would not want to explain it to someone outside dev though.

We have a TLDR channel. I will start one in the scc, specifically for you guys to diary your accomplishments/big discussions/results/wins/losses

9:13 AM

Use it extensively for documentation but not discussion

luma44

We have a TLDR channel. I will start one in the scc, specifically for you guys to diary your accomplishments/big discussions/results/wins/losses

I like this.

https://discord.com/channels/1098133959843512320/1162422950566305943/1162423467107430410

9:16 AM

Implemented

luma44

We have a TLDR channel. I will start one in the scc, specifically for you guys to diary your accomplishments/big discussions/results/wins/losses

Honestly we don't have much to go on this week, so I think I'm just going i open a line of discourse about the no Monetization Rule and the discord link error. I dont feel bringing up millertime is productive nor within the SCC wheel of responsibilities

Caffeine & Ketamine

Honestly we don't have much to go on this week, so I think I'm just going i open a line of discourse about the no Monetization Rule and the discord link error. I dont feel bringing up millertime is productive nor within the SCC wheel of responsibilities

As I said earlier, it's just one of those complex ones with a lot of emotion tied into it

9:17 AM

I think if it can't be reduced to a "request for info" it's probably going to be too hard to tackle in this forum

luma44

As I said earlier, it's just one of those complex ones with a lot of emotion tied into it

Agreed. This is more for yall to handle than to do with us. I'd rather not tie the SCC to previous issues that pre-date our forming

I think it's entirely in bounds for you to challenge stuff from before the SCC... but the stuff that people are still on about will be the complex stuff

9:18 AM

The simple stuff has either been resolved or forgotten

Caffeine & Ketamine

Honestly we don't have much to go on this week, so I think I'm just going i open a line of discourse about the no Monetization Rule and the discord link error. I dont feel bringing up millertime is productive nor within the SCC wheel of responsibilities

Took a look this morning. Server was deleveled less than 24 hours. When it happens, people lose emotes and stickers, so they notice pretty quick, and usually someone boosts again organically. We should review stickers and emotes to ensure they're high value proposition to users to keep that true, but I have no idea where this lad is getting "a week".

Would anyone like to read the current rough draft for the post?

2

9:23 AM

Still have things to be added, but always enjoy feedback

9:23 AM

Unfortunately it looks like my fellow SCC are busy

Hi

9:44 AM

I'll read whatever you wish

9:44 AM

It's a good time, if it's not too late

9:45 AM

But I respect if you don't want my input

I got 10 min b4 I need to move my ass

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Community Corps Member Currently writing out the Weekly Fireside Chat Post for the Sub. I want some feedback. I'd like to provide the requests we've received that week, but I don't feel it's best to include the bad faith requests that develop into uncompromising debate. Should we include ALL requests & just state that the conversation is ongoing? How would you all like this to be phrased? (edited)

There's some key points regarding the Millertime ban that are worth talking about in generalities. Such as clarity on why a ban is happening, evidence that the moderators tried to work with the individual in question, being able to focus such a post mainly on the largest infractions which led to action being taken. As @Lyrad (Crybad) mentioned, the team lacks in middle management skills that would make this process go as well as it could. Even requesting crowd sourcing on how to make templates that address the main concerns would be good for a fireside post. I'm sure we have those types among the members of the sub. For the topic of self promotion, it might be worthwhile to request users to voice their continued support for content creators / aggregators to promote their own works. Let the users know that some expressed concerns with self promotion and we want to hear what all users think.

Rough_Willow

There's some key points regarding the Millertime ban that are worth talking about in generalities. Such as clarity on why a ban is happening, evidence that the moderators tried to work with the individual in question, being able to focus such a post mainly on the largest infractions which led to action being taken. As @Lyrad (Crybad) mentioned, the team lacks in middle management skills that would make this process go as well as it could. Even requesting crowd sourcing on how to make templates that address the main concerns would be good for a fireside post. I'm sure we have those types among the members of the sub. For the topic of self promotion, it might be worthwhile to request users to voice their continued support for content creators / aggregators to promote their own works. Let the users know that some expressed concerns with self promotion and we want to hear what all users think.

I’ve skimmed the messages above this, but is there a tldr on why Miller is being talked about again? Wasn’t that like 1-2 years ago now?

SPCΞMΞmbΞr593

I’ve skimmed the messages above this, but is there a tldr on why Miller is being talked about again? Wasn’t that like 1-2 years ago now?

This is from the SCC Transparency Request posts on the main Superstonk discord channel.

Rough_Willow

There's some key points regarding the Millertime ban that are worth talking about in generalities. Such as clarity on why a ban is happening, evidence that the moderators tried to work with the individual in question, being able to focus such a post mainly on the largest infractions which led to action being taken. As @Lyrad (Crybad) mentioned, the team lacks in middle management skills that would make this process go as well as it could. Even requesting crowd sourcing on how to make templates that address the main concerns would be good for a fireside post. I'm sure we have those types among the members of the sub. For the topic of self promotion, it might be worthwhile to request users to voice their continued support for content creators / aggregators to promote their own works. Let the users know that some expressed concerns with self promotion and we want to hear what all users think.

Can I pick your brain on self promotion a bit? Wondering if you draw any line between people who make art/music/game content and people who build websites for info? It’s a grey area for me at the moment.

Rough_Willow

This is from the SCC Transparency Request posts on the main Superstonk discord channel.

Oh, so just blame all the ex mods and leave it at that.

9:53 AM

9:53 AM

Just reply idk?

TiberiusWoodwind

Can I pick your brain on self promotion a bit? Wondering if you draw any line between people who make art/music/game content and people who build websites for info? It’s a grey area for me at the moment.

Sure, send me a DM so we don't muddy up this channel.

Oh duh. I forget to think about channels. Hang on

Actually, I recall Miller event a bit and was surprised at the time, but I see how things devolve quickly.

9:55 AM

I’ll go browse that channel and get a quick vibe

SPCΞMΞmbΞr593

Oh, so just blame all the ex mods and leave it at that.

People will absolutely pull up their calanders and make a list of all the mods who WERE here during that time period

10:02 AM

and demand answers from them

Okay. Post incoming. Criticism is always welcome.

Caffeine & Ketamine

Okay. Post incoming. Criticism is always welcome.

oh the users will give you plenty of that

Ohhhhhhhh, NOW I see what you have all been talking about.

1

Guten Morgen everybody! Happy Friday, today we've got a tasty discount today. Hope everyone is taking advantage. This weekend will be the beginning of the Weekly Fireside Chat with the SCC. This is a time where we update the Community on the information requests we've received this week within the Transparency Request Discord Channel, ask you all to provide us with your own requests/ questions/ concerns of current topics/events/happenings/ and when we present ideas the SCC are currently discussing and debating with the Mods. Unfortunately we don't have too much to report, this week. Again, all threads are publicly available on the Superstonk Discord if you feel like reading the specifics. This Week's Request Topics: • the No- Monetization Rule/ Users posting Youtube links to videos discussing DD specifically pertaining to GME I want to present this topic to the Community, it's currently an ongoing topic and i want to have a discussion on where everyone stands regarding this. Do you feel the rule is too strict? Do you feel it could/should be adjusted and under specific circumstances? Are you fine with Users linking to their youtube, if the video is discussing specific Superstonk GME DD, in efforts to reach further than the Sub? Let's hear your thoughts! • Discord Invites It was brought to our attention that the Discord link was inactive, and new folks finding the sub would be unable to join. This was due to a lost Boost level 3 and was resolved thanks to Plat. So the link should be working again! Please use this time to discuss with one another, upvote ideas and issues you feel are important to the Community going forward. Our goal is to provide a weekly place where the Sub/Discord Community can come together, have a unified voice on how this Sub adapts, overcomes, and excels going forward. Whether it's discussing rule modification, policies/changes you feel could benefit the Sub, requests of information transparency, etc.

10:24 AM

I'm proud of everyone who has already taken advantage of the Publicly accessible Discord channel & requested information. I urge you all to utilize the Request tool, articulate your request, and give us some time to get on the same page, and then process the request. Weve had good faith discussions,, in the short span we've been active, and I can't thank you all enough. We're learning a lot and will continue to do our best to work for this great Community we've developed here. Much love to Everyone. I'm proud to be a part of this journey with you all. MOASS tomorrow. DRS today. See you on the Moon

Just to let you know, I've issued a warning to Soup after looking through https://discord.com/channels/841716774554042439/1162345977588502538/1162436270497222733

C&K confirmed shill

Quanatee

Just to let you know, I've issued a warning to Soup after looking through https://discord.com/channels/841716774554042439/1162345977588502538/1162436270497222733

Thank you Quantee, sorry to make more work for you

Caffeine & Ketamine

Guten Morgen everybody! Happy Friday, today we've got a tasty discount today. Hope everyone is taking advantage. This weekend will be the beginning of the Weekly Fireside Chat with the SCC. This is a time where we update the Community on the information requests we've received this week within the Transparency Request Discord Channel, ask you all to provide us with your own requests/ questions/ concerns of current topics/events/happenings/ and when we present ideas the SCC are currently discussing and debating with the Mods. Unfortunately we don't have too much to report, this week. Again, all threads are publicly available on the Superstonk Discord if you feel like reading the specifics. This Week's Request Topics: • the No- Monetization Rule/ Users posting Youtube links to videos discussing DD specifically pertaining to GME I want to present this topic to the Community, it's currently an ongoing topic and i want to have a discussion on where everyone stands regarding this. Do you feel the rule is too strict? Do you feel it could/should be adjusted and under specific circumstances? Are you fine with Users linking to their youtube, if the video is discussing specific Superstonk GME DD, in efforts to reach further than the Sub? Let's hear your thoughts! • Discord Invites It was brought to our attention that the Discord link was inactive, and new folks finding the sub would be unable to join. This was due to a lost Boost level 3 and was resolved thanks to Plat. So the link should be working again! Please use this time to discuss with one another, upvote ideas and issues you feel are important to the Community going forward. Our goal is to provide a weekly place where the Sub/Discord Community can come together, have a unified voice on how this Sub adapts, overcomes, and excels going forward. Whether it's discussing rule modification, policies/changes you feel could benefit the Sub, requests of information transparency, etc.

I wanna hear about the guy I advocated for reducing their ban duration.

10:33 AM

Also, it's not the No Monetization rule, it's the limits to self promotion, which is allowed in our group under specific conditions.

Lyrad (Crybad)

C&K confirmed shill

Rough_Willow

I wanna hear about the guy I advocated for reducing their ban duration.

Changed it

Rough_Willow

I wanna hear about the guy I advocated for reducing their ban duration.

Which guy

Rough_Willow

Also, it's not the No Monetization rule, it's the limits to self promotion, which is allowed in our group under specific conditions.

Oh, I like that title better. "The limits of self-promotion" is great word smithing.

@Rough_Willow are you referencing millertime??? If so...im very hesitant about opening that bag yet.

Caffeine & Ketamine

@Rough_Willow are you referencing millertime??? If so...im very hesitant about opening that bag yet.

No, @luma44 which thread was that?

That's something we need to discuss with Mods, in an indepth conversation

Rough_Willow

No, @luma44 which thread was that?

oh god i need to find it.....

1

Rough_Willow

I wanna hear about the guy I advocated for reducing their ban duration.

https://discord.com/channels/1098133959843512320/1104667545174298734/1156662014014410922 this one?

Lyrad (Crybad)

https://discord.com/channels/1098133959843512320/1104667545174298734/1156662014014410922 this one?

Yes!

user is not currently banned, let me see what action we took

Rough_Willow

Yes!

Yes, we reduced it to a 7 day after that conversation

That's a SCC win I want mentioned. @Caffeine & Ketamine

without mentioning the user name of course C&K

Rough_Willow

That's a SCC win I want mentioned. @Caffeine & Ketamine

Great! Post it in #scc-diary-tldr-no-discussion

Lyrad (Crybad)

without mentioning the user name of course C&K

Oh of course

Post is up. @Community Corps Member be ready for some requests or nothing at all lmao

Caffeine & Ketamine

Post is up. @Community Corps Member be ready for some requests or nothing at all lmao

took jack 0 time to chime in

Lyrad (Crybad)

took jack 0 time to chime in

Right!? Dudes a troublemaker. I'd have no problem with someone's passion but I have an issue with his inability to accept an answer he doesn't want to hear (edited)

He's promoting participation, so I'm for it in this case

Quanatee

He's promoting participation, so I'm for it in this case

He's only doing it because he thinks he's being mistreated and thinks people will flock to defend him

11:32 AM

I'll take it...but it's a bit disingenuous

Only the supporters of Miller & the lot will take his side.

11:39 AM

Rest of the sub members ( if they bother to go check the thread) will see what kind of logical gymnastics are imposed upon the SCC.

Hes a tough one for me. I'm not sure there's anything we've done or can do that would not upset him or cause him to have the, "devils advocate," position.

There are ppl that I can not have conversations with. Jack is one of them. Tried it about 6-8 months ago.

1

Don't worry, I've got it covered.

Yeah Willow has handled that dude really well

Rough_Willow

Don't worry, I've got it covered.

You're doing a fantastic job. It's genuinely appreciated Willow, thank you.

1

Lairian -Flairy Type-

For the sake of argument, and only because of a compulsive need to devil's advocate, what would break if you disabled all tracking? Given this lad wants to hang you for what you might do tomorrow, he'll say you'll just turn it on next week, of course. But does the site actually need any of those tracking libraries?

Thinking this out: disable Google and still get the same sort of data from cloudflare, only now I have no idea what is and is not clicking outside of what plays on the sub. As for what would break? I believe it would make it harder for my stuff to be indexed by the search engines. Would be curious what folks in this field have to say.

Honestly the big thing for me is just a note on why it's helpful and having a concrete example. A/B test capability? That's huge and a reason to keep it. Helping with SEO? Same deal. I'm not saying abandon everything, but sharing "yeah, I have a tracking library, but here's exactly what I do with it" goes a long way to the average person. Tinfoils are never going to be happy unless you turn off everything but HTML and have no javascript either. But those people are either arguing in bad faith, or have uBlock and javascript turned off, so.

3:53 PM

I'm not even saying make that a prominant note, just have it in your pocket when asked. $0.02, just individual thoughts.

That dude's argument is mute. If he is in Reddit, like any other website he is subjected to some form of analytics. You.might want to advise that they can try to disable it from their browser.

dismal-jellyfish.eth

Thinking this out: disable Google and still get the same sort of data from cloudflare, only now I have no idea what is and is not clicking outside of what plays on the sub. As for what would break? I believe it would make it harder for my stuff to be indexed by the search engines. Would be curious what folks in this field have to say.

Thinking out loud, but have you considered Medium?

4:48 PM

It's possible to disable their Partner Program and you don't have to Paywall articles. I know Loopring uses it for example. It also looks like the barrier to entry as a writer is low (not knocking your quality btw, just in terms being able to post to Medium do I mean). I suspect that the user in question was fishing for reasons tbh, but deference of responsibility to another known/widely used platform could stave off future accusations of hosting on "some sketchy site". I mean, keep the site too because that's incredibly helpful. It's easier to compare Reddit/Discord and Medium as a salient rebuttal I think most would agree with (e.g. 'dude, you're using Discord and Reddit and bitching about Medium? Get uBlock Origin the whole web is built to spy on you') There are other ideas too, like sites like Wix/Squarespace, but the benefit of Medium in this case is in proving you have no way to run nefarious Javascript, etc. (which in all honesty is a valid concern, when genuine) (edited)

ProgVirus

It's possible to disable their Partner Program and you don't have to Paywall articles. I know Loopring uses it for example. It also looks like the barrier to entry as a writer is low (not knocking your quality btw, just in terms being able to post to Medium do I mean). I suspect that the user in question was fishing for reasons tbh, but deference of responsibility to another known/widely used platform could stave off future accusations of hosting on "some sketchy site". I mean, keep the site too because that's incredibly helpful. It's easier to compare Reddit/Discord and Medium as a salient rebuttal I think most would agree with (e.g. 'dude, you're using Discord and Reddit and bitching about Medium? Get uBlock Origin the whole web is built to spy on you') There are other ideas too, like sites like Wix/Squarespace, but the benefit of Medium in this case is in proving you have no way to run nefarious Javascript, etc. (which in all honesty is a valid concern, when genuine) (edited)

I will think on this but would really prefer to not have to do more work after all the work to find something that met my needs while I feel also respected anyone visiting. To add to this, with reddit gold and reddit 'paying posters now', doesn't this make any post to the sub 'monetized' (or have the potential to be?

dismal-jellyfish.eth

I will think on this but would really prefer to not have to do more work after all the work to find something that met my needs while I feel also respected anyone visiting. To add to this, with reddit gold and reddit 'paying posters now', doesn't this make any post to the sub 'monetized' (or have the potential to be?

Rough_Willow

Click to see attachment 🖼️

5:36 PM

Full disclosure, they (Reddit) have reached out to personally invite me to do that.

5:36 PM

I am not participating nor intend too

5:37 PM

but that is 'ou there' now as well

If they respond tomorrow, I'll not be around to answer. Just making sure the thread is still being monitored.

1

5:42 PM

https://discord.com/channels/841716774554042439/1162170203409486035/1162513806409347132

dismal-jellyfish.eth

I will think on this but would really prefer to not have to do more work after all the work to find something that met my needs while I feel also respected anyone visiting. To add to this, with reddit gold and reddit 'paying posters now', doesn't this make any post to the sub 'monetized' (or have the potential to be?

Put the link to the homepage via archive.is site and update the snapshot on a schedule? I'm not suggesting you do this btw just an idea that popped into my head

ProgVirus

Put the link to the homepage via archive.is site and update the snapshot on a schedule? I'm not suggesting you do this btw just an idea that popped into my head

Would this be for just me to do, or would this be a proposed rule for anything linking to a primary source or aggregator? For eample, would all links from reuters, marketwatch, AP, etc need to go this route? What about stuff listed in government filings? Part of why I grab and link to what I am talking about is a bit of paranoia 'they' change the docs before something like archive gets a snapshot. Adding, not that I am looking to build a brand, but wouldn't this effectively 'neuter' what I am trying to setup as a free and open resource for folks passing it off to archive.io (who folks should have the same concerns about as with me (if it is logs?). Adding, if the policy 'shifts' to all arhive.is links, will this upset reddit? Part of 'their thing' us getting folks eyes on content that is paid to be promoted and this could put the sub at odds with that? I again want to return to Reddit itself. EVERY post on it has the potential to be monetized for the user now simply from the fact of the changes Reddit itself has made. Also, could I get y'all to weigh in more on one bit for me? Is the concern I am putting time and effort into a resource into a project that could be viewed by some as competing with the sub or that I am a mod and trying to do this? For example, Peruvian_bull (not to pick on them, try to start beef, what have you, they are aweseome, they are just the first that come to mind for my example) has a substack? and presence on other social platforms while making his content available. This content has been well received and celebrated (from my perspective and as it should) despite the ability for a path to monetization? (edited)

Just to repeat again, I was devil's advocating. I don't believe you should change your behavior, personally. Just one concrete example (and you gave two) for what features those libraries enable was enough for me. If the devil's advocating how to appease a probably bad actor that won't be satisfied by anything is frustrating to you, instead of helping rehearse an answer if this comes up again, I'm way more than happy to drop this.

dismal-jellyfish.eth

Would this be for just me to do, or would this be a proposed rule for anything linking to a primary source or aggregator? For eample, would all links from reuters, marketwatch, AP, etc need to go this route? What about stuff listed in government filings? Part of why I grab and link to what I am talking about is a bit of paranoia 'they' change the docs before something like archive gets a snapshot. Adding, not that I am looking to build a brand, but wouldn't this effectively 'neuter' what I am trying to setup as a free and open resource for folks passing it off to archive.io (who folks should have the same concerns about as with me (if it is logs?). Adding, if the policy 'shifts' to all arhive.is links, will this upset reddit? Part of 'their thing' us getting folks eyes on content that is paid to be promoted and this could put the sub at odds with that? I again want to return to Reddit itself. EVERY post on it has the potential to be monetized for the user now simply from the fact of the changes Reddit itself has made. Also, could I get y'all to weigh in more on one bit for me? Is the concern I am putting time and effort into a resource into a project that could be viewed by some as competing with the sub or that I am a mod and trying to do this? For example, Peruvian_bull (not to pick on them, try to start beef, what have you, they are aweseome, they are just the first that come to mind for my example) has a substack? and presence on other social platforms while making his content available. This content has been well received and celebrated (from my perspective and as it should) despite the ability for a path to monetization? (edited)

Don't change anything. You are taking this trolling attempt too seriously.

5

Lairian -Flairy Type-

Just to repeat again, I was devil's advocating. I don't believe you should change your behavior, personally. Just one concrete example (and you gave two) for what features those libraries enable was enough for me. If the devil's advocating how to appease a probably bad actor that won't be satisfied by anything is frustrating to you, instead of helping rehearse an answer if this comes up again, I'm way more than happy to drop this.

Oh for sure! (please do not think I am upset by the inquiries, anything but!). If I am going to put this team in the position of having to deal with the consequences of what I am doing (upset users), I damn well sure want y'all to be bale to say you have an open dialogue, have asked questions, played devil's advocate, etc. Not that I would EVER expect anyone here to endorse or defend my work, at the same time, I feel it is unfair to y'all to have to answer to it/for it in some form or another to the community if not having the opportunity to fire off any questions, concerns, suggestions. (edited)

3

dismal-jellyfish.eth

Would this be for just me to do, or would this be a proposed rule for anything linking to a primary source or aggregator? For eample, would all links from reuters, marketwatch, AP, etc need to go this route? What about stuff listed in government filings? Part of why I grab and link to what I am talking about is a bit of paranoia 'they' change the docs before something like archive gets a snapshot. Adding, not that I am looking to build a brand, but wouldn't this effectively 'neuter' what I am trying to setup as a free and open resource for folks passing it off to archive.io (who folks should have the same concerns about as with me (if it is logs?). Adding, if the policy 'shifts' to all arhive.is links, will this upset reddit? Part of 'their thing' us getting folks eyes on content that is paid to be promoted and this could put the sub at odds with that? I again want to return to Reddit itself. EVERY post on it has the potential to be monetized for the user now simply from the fact of the changes Reddit itself has made. Also, could I get y'all to weigh in more on one bit for me? Is the concern I am putting time and effort into a resource into a project that could be viewed by some as competing with the sub or that I am a mod and trying to do this? For example, Peruvian_bull (not to pick on them, try to start beef, what have you, they are aweseome, they are just the first that come to mind for my example) has a substack? and presence on other social platforms while making his content available. This content has been well received and celebrated (from my perspective and as it should) despite the ability for a path to monetization? (edited)

So tbh, I would personally love it if we had a rule where all links were archived, but that’s not really feasible imo. Being honest, simply adding the archive link in addition to the primary link could be enough to assuage genuine concerns from folks leary of clicking the link I need to look more into the monetization bit of Reddit, I’m not too familiar with the changes there. But I don’t view your site at all as competing with the sub/Reddit, complimenting it sure Again, this was more thinking out loud than anything, I’m definitely not saying things need to change. These are just strategies that popped into my head that would render the arguments of concern trollers moot

1

@Community Corps Member Alright so what would everyone like to see in this weekends Weekend Fireside ??

7:44 PM

I'd like to provide some updates on the Monetization situation reddit put in our laps

2

7:45 PM

What else needs disclosing

Include the discourse that's been floating around about post quality?

^ hallelujah

7:48 PM

If I wasn't currently so involved in house stuff I'd love to really start in on this.

7:48 PM

but yes, I'd like to hear people from the sub weigh in on the idea of re-evaluating post standards

LastResortFriend

Include the discourse that's been floating around about post quality?

Elaborate?

7:50 PM

I've been incredibly busy lately so I'm a bit behind

@TiberiusWoodwind cover this for me? In hospital and one hand is numb so I'm too slow.

3

LastResortFriend

@TiberiusWoodwind cover this for me? In hospital and one hand is numb so I'm too slow.

can't. 28k pounds of concrete above my kitchen has some cracks in it and im addressing that before i don't get the hospital option

2

Caffeine & Ketamine

Elaborate?

Will before Friday

@Caffeine & Ketamine just toss it out into the ether that we'd like to hear people's opinions on how to bring some standards to certain flairs. Partially to raise quality and partially to be more consistent about how we address stuff like removal or flair changes

All good guys. Personal life comes first. Worst case, I sparknotes this week, and let the Community do its thing. Not every week needs to be a full breakdown. Any questions, there's always the request channel Take care of yourselves first

LastResortFriend

@TiberiusWoodwind cover this for me? In hospital and one hand is numb so I'm too slow.

Wishing you the best. Hope everything works out for you

1

1

LastResortFriend

Will before Friday

Good luck fren.

1

Hasn't been used in a while, dusting off the old notifications: https://discord.com/channels/841716774554042439/1161391133381898330/1187783165062955078

1

Rough_Willow started a thread. 12/22/2023 8:45 AM